Volunteering: The leadership sandbox to improve leadership skills, broaden networks, and explore new fields, shaping PM careers. In this episode, we explore how volunteering can shape project management careers, with our guests, Yasmina Khelifi and Mayte Mata Sivera. They share how volunteering has been a cornerstone in their professional journeys, enriching their experiences, opening new doors, and helping them grow as leaders.
Chapters
00:00 … Intro
04:12 … PM Journey
06:03 … Yasmina’s Volunteering Beginnings
08:16 … Mayte’s Volunteering Beginnings
10:14 … Transferable Skills Developed through Volunteering
12:30 … A Sandbox
15:13 … Becoming Better Leaders
20:29 … Kevin and Kyle
21:31 … Building Stronger Networks
25:31 … Grow Your Skills through Volunteering
31:08 … Career Benefits
32:40 … Practical Steps to Volunteering
35:02 … Find Something That Brings You Joy
37:19 … Memorable Volunteering Experiences
40:41 … The Book
42:49 … Connect with Yasmina and Mayte
44:09 … Closing
MAYTE MATA SIVERA: If you are looking for your first volunteer opportunity or starting a volunteer journey, find something that brings you joy. It means volunteers should not be something to add in your to-do list. We have too many things going on. We are juggling every day with work, family. And Yasmina mentioned the time commitment. It’s a time commitment, but at least find something that brings you joy, that you are going to enjoy.
Intro
WENDY GROUNDS: Hello, and welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers. We’re so glad you’ve joined us today. My name is Wendy Grounds, and my co-host is Bill Yates.
Velociteach has fantastic learning opportunities. It’s a great way to earn PDUs and maintain your certifications. We’re also excited to announce our newest course, “80/20 Product Backlog Refinement.” Some of you might remember our guests from episode 183: Richard Lawrence and Peter Green. Their insights were so engaging that we’ve teamed up with Richard to bring this course to InSite. 80/20 Product Backlog Refinement is designed for product owners, managers, and anyone steering the direction of a product. This on-demand course is your key to mastering essential skills that will propel your product and team to new heights.
If you’ve got questions about our podcast or project management certifications, feel free to reach out to us. We’re here to help.
We’re talking to two very interesting ladies today. Mayte Mata was born and raised in Spain, and she’s an experienced PMO director who is now based in Salt Lake City in the USA. She has a master’s degree in chemical engineering and has been a project manager in a technology sector overseeing projects worldwide. She’s motivated by a passion for strategic business development. She is committed to the project management community and is a dedicated board member at the Project Management Institute Northern Utah chapter. Together with our other guest, Yasmina Khelifi, they have written a book called “The Volunteering Journey to Project Leadership: A Pathway to Improving Leadership Skills, Broadening Networks, and Exploring New Fields.”
So, our other guest is Yasmina Khelifi, who is a French telecom engineer and project manager with three PMI certifications. She’s been working in the telecom industry for 20 years and is also a passionate volunteer at PMI. She blogs regularly on ProjectManagement.com and is a volunteer international correspondent at PM World Journal. She has a podcast called Global Leaders Talk with Yasmina Khelifi, and you can check that out if you want to hear more from her.
So, while we’re talking to them today, we’re going to look at volunteering, and how you can get involved in volunteering, and how volunteering can shape your project management careers. Yasmina and Mayte, they share how volunteering has been a cornerstone in their paths and has enriched their experiences and opened up new opportunities for them.
BILL YATES: This is going to be a great conversation. We’ve had some really interesting projects that come right up to the edge of volunteer work. I think of Saving Rhinos and the fun conversation we had, the Ocean Cleanup Project, and the dedicated team that’s pursuing that BHAG, if you will. I think of Dave Maddux and the conversation we had with that project manager. He’s doing project management for Project C.U.R.E. for that organization.
WENDY GROUNDS: That’s right.
BILL YATES: Fascinating stuff. And then even at the local PMI chapter level we had conversations with several people, including a conversation with Monique Sekhon on that. Volunteering is a fantastic way to grow your skill set. I think we can all agree to that. But then, practically, how do I go about it? How do I get into it? How do I pick the right volunteering opportunity for me? There’s such great practical advice that these two are going to share with us. I can’t wait to jump into the conversation.
WENDY GROUNDS: Hi, Yasmina; and hello, Mayte. Thank you so much for joining us today.
YASMINA KHELIFI: Hello. Nice to be with you today.
MAYTE MATA SIVERA: Hi. Nice to meet you.
PM Journey
WENDY GROUNDS: Yeah, we’re excited to have you both on the podcast. It’s not often we have two guests, so it just makes it a little bit more exciting, and we’re really looking forward to hearing what you have to bring to the conversation about volunteering. Before we start, can you maybe take turns to share your personal journey of becoming project managers, and how volunteering played a role in that journey?
YASMINA KHELIFI: Yes, so I will go first. So, you know I was an engineer, and I became a project manager by accident because a manager proposed to me the position of a leaving colleague, and I accepted it was a natural path in the technological company where I work. And at that stage, I did not know at all what volunteering was. So, I was immersed in the work, in the projects at work.
MAYTE MATA: Yeah, in my case was something kind of similar than Yasmina. I have a background in chemical engineering. I was hired for one of the top five technology companies to be a business analyst. And from there, the project manager led the project. I took the role of project manager. And for their project program portfolio PMO director, that’s my career path, and really volunteer was the one that helped me to move to the different steps on the project and program management profession.
BILL YATES: It’s so interesting that you both come from an engineering perspective, too. That is a common path for project managers, but many times it comes with resistance. I really like the science side of engineering. I don’t know if I want to manage people. So, we may get into that as we talk about volunteers, as well. But that’s a very interesting beginning.
Yasmina’s Volunteering Beginnings
WENDY GROUNDS: What were some of your first volunteering experiences, Yasmina?
YASMINA KHELIFI: Yes, in fact, I have to be honest, I began with the hard ways, I would say, because I did not know at all what volunteering was. And when I began to volunteer, I had a lot of ideas; and I thought, well, it’s not a company. So, it’s freedom, freedom of ideas, freedom of doing different things. But a volunteering organization is an organization with roles, projects to prioritize, initiative. So it was a big surprise for me. And also, I was very passionate because it was new. It was very motivating for me, and I was pushy to people.
For example, I work in a newsletter to coordinate the content, and I wanted the new volunteers to be highlighted in the newsletter. I pushed all the pictures and roles to the volunteer graphic designer, and he didn’t include them. So, I created myself, but I’m not a graphic designer. So, when he saw the result, he was not very happy because he told me, you know, “I have to redo everything. And it’s a lot of work also to have all the volunteers highlighted, and I don’t like this way of working.” It was a bit how I worked. And also, by volunteering I discovered I could share a lot of knowledge.
So, I made a first webinar, something completely new, in English, remotely, with a friend in Dubai. And then, during the webinar, there was a WhatsApp group, and people were saying, “I do not understand what she’s saying.” But I was very courageous. So, I was talking louder. After, of course, I was devastated. I thought, okay, all my English, you know, how can I improve it? It’s not possible because it’s my accent. And when I received the recording, I couldn’t understand myself, not because of the accent, but because of the sound. The sound was very bad. It didn’t – it was not high-speed Internet connection at that time. I did not have an external mic. It was awful. So, you know, it’s the kind of experiences I had in volunteering. I think Mayte had more positive experiences to share.
Mayte’s Volunteering Beginnings
MAYTE MATA: Yeah, it’s very fun how both of us in this collaboration learn from each other because my first – I did a few things while I was in Spain, typical during holidays, supporting some kind of food banks and small initiatives and things like that. However, when I moved to Utah, things hit kind of different because I didn’t know anyone. So, I tried to look for communities where I could feel that I belong. It is very hard change from moving from Europe to the United States. So initially I focused in finding diversity where I can connect with kind of diverse people.
I joined the TEDx Salt Lake City event. Are you familiar with the TED talks? So, we have a local event here in Salt Lake City. I joined that community where I was able to work with people from different backgrounds and learn at the same time how to lead diverse teams because each of us were from a different background in a professional environment. I usually hang out, as you mentioned before, with engineers, project managers, business analysts, developers. So, in that kind of settings where I was with a tarot reader, a former sex worker, with someone that is an accountant, a graphic designer, AV people. Putting all that people together helped me to learn how to lead teams in a more inclusive environment.
However, I was also developing my career in project management. So, I was looking for volunteer opportunities that helped me in that professional development. I joined the PMI, Northern Utah chapter, and that was amazing because not only it helped me to grow professionally, also helped me to network in a professional environment. And that was these two first opportunities here in Utah that helped me to grow professionally and also to support my willingness to have that feeling of belonging, if that makes sense.
Transferable Skills Developed through Volunteering
BILL YATES: It’s so interesting. When I was looking forward to this conversation, I was thinking about the advantages that come from volunteering, and specifically for project managers. And you guys are hitting on some of those keys, like networking that you’ve mentioned, and also skill development. And the safety that you have in volunteering. Yasmina, you mentioned freedom. There’s a freedom in volunteer work where you can try different things. You can, “Hey, I don’t naturally network, but now I’m going to.” Or “I have a second language that I’m developing, and I can do that in this volunteering environment.”
It’s really exciting for me to hear your personal experiences of how you could take a different environment, not a work environment, a volunteer environment, and build up your skills in different areas that way. And I wanted to ask more about those transferable skills. If you think about examples of transferable skills that you developed through volunteering, what are some other examples you could share with the audience?
YASMINA KHELIFI: I think Mayte already mentioned something very important, and I had the same experience, is communication.
WENDY GROUNDS: Right.
YASMINA KHELIFI: Because like Mayte, I work in a very technological company, and I work mainly with engineers. And when I began to volunteer, I worked with people who were very true marketers. And the way I work, the way we work also at work, when we have something to do, I prepare a file, a Word document or an Excel file. I send, I share the file, and I say, “Don’t hesitate to put your comments, and then we are going to talk about them.”
And when I sent to a woman in the chapter, she told me, “I’m sorry, it’s hard for me to think like this in Excel. It’s better if we can talk together. In fact, it will be easier for me.” And I thought, “Oh, yes, that’s correct. I have to accept different ways of doing and working.” And that is what also you mentioned in terms of diversity, freedom of trying new things, and forcing myself to try new things. In fact, because at the end it has to work and we do not have so much time to execute and deliver the project.
A Sandbox
MAYTE MATA: That’s true what Yasmina is saying because really, and what you mentioned, too, we talked a little about that in the book, in “The Volunteering Journey to Project Leadership,” that we use the volunteering as a sandbox, as a place where we can experiment, where we can try new things. So, in my case, I think that the most transferable skill that I’ve gained was the ability to transition from doing to leading. My transition career, as I mentioned, was from business analyst that you have your hands in the system to a project manager when you need to lead. So, this transition was very easy for me to my volunteers’ opportunities because I was able to practice how to delegate properly and trust others. Because at that point I was not the person doing the business analyst.
So, I needed to learn first how to delegate, to trust others, and how to guide all team towards the same goal. So that’s something that I gained, is this transition from doing to leading. Because you can start practicing in this sandbox of volunteering, and after all the learnings you can apply in your day-to-day jobs, and you can test different things.
YASMINA KHELIFI: And I think it helped because for me it was a completely new context, in fact. And because it’s a new context, I had a kind of a reset, I would say. So, I think my brain was more open also. And I think it’s something also when we discussed with Mayte, that’s why we had this great collaboration about a book, webinars, and articles, is to really force ourselves to remain open minded. Because if you talk to anyone, you say, “Are you open minded?” Everyone is going to answer yes.
BILL YATES: Of course.
YASMINA KHELIFI: We are all open minded.
BILL YATES: Yes, yes.
YASMINA KHELIFI: But when we begin to work, to interact with new people, then we become aware, perhaps I should improve this way, the way I communicate, or the way I listen, or the way I accept also feedback perhaps. And I think all these experiences are very rich in terms of human development, which is needed when you work as a project leader.
BILL YATES: So true. And I think for many of us, and I’m sure the listeners can relate, you know, you get used to your way of working at your particular company. And you may have been there for quite a while, and things can get stagnant, and we need to take a fresh look. We need to have a sandbox where it is a safe place for us to try different skills that maybe are not as developed as others. And we need to see fresh perspectives. And then I may learn something that I can apply back to my paying job from that experience. That’s good.
Becoming Better Leaders
WENDY GROUNDS: I just love the way you describe it, that sandbox experiment. So how has it helped you become better leaders? Mayte, you did mention leadership skills that you have developed through volunteering. Can you give us some examples of how you’ve adapted your leadership skills through this?
MAYTE MATA: Yeah. So, I truly believe that the two volunteer experience that I mentioned, the Salt Lake City and the PMI chapter, helped me a lot because they were different teams and different challenge. For example, at TEDx, I learned how to lead diverse groups of people and ensuring that each of the ideas were valued. Something that sometimes in the room you have some people that is more shy and talk a little less. I learned how maybe this quiet person in the meeting room has amazing ideas. So how to ensure this collaboration, how to ensure that every one idea were value while keeping the focus on their goals and not hijacking meetings and things like that. I think that that was one of the biggest learnings through that, and how I was able to adapt quickly.
Another experience at TEDx Salt Lake City, I’m a project manager, I’m all about Excel files, risk management, step one, two, and three. But there are things that you cannot plan in a 3,000-people event. So, we had planned a food truck lunch in an outside theater, and it did start raining because it was September, and they didn’t think about that. So that agile mindset that all the people say, “I’m super agile,” no. In this case, when you need to find very fast solutions, forget all your spreadsheets and step one, two, and three. Where are you going to put 3,000 people for lunch if it’s raining?
So, these kinds of different experiences that make you think outside of the box really helped me to grow because you are more ready in your day-to-day projects. Doesn’t matter if they are marketing project, event projects, finance projects, or technology because you are stretching your brain. You are stretching your capability to be more adaptable.
On the other hand, at PMI Northern Utah chapter, I took a board position. So, it helped me in my career to participate in strategic planning and mentoring, something that I didn’t have the opportunity when I took the board position to do on my work. It helped me to grow as a leader because I was able to participate in strategic decisions or manage budget that I am not able to do in my day-to-day opportunities or in my day-to-day job, and also helped me to grow as a project manager.
So, I wanted to highlight these two experiences because they are completely different. In one I manage an event, and you manage risk that you are not expecting rain. And in the other hand, you have this professional development when you are part of a board member. And as a project manager, we usually don’t take decisions. We help our stakeholders to take decisions. But in that case, you are the one that takes the decision so you participate in this strategic thinking.
YASMINA KHELIFI: Yes, I agree, fully agree with what Mayte said. During my volunteering experiences in terms of leadership, I could also work with new cultures, new nationalities. I work in a very international environment. But I couldn’t work with all nationalities. And also in my case, if I get back to the English language, I could improve from my point of view the way I communicate and I talk in English, to articulate well, to slow down, and also the written communication in English because I also have wrote some articles, some blogs, for newsletters.
The other important thing I discovered through volunteering is how to manage change. For example, I joined a social media team. And then the way they were organized, there was a graphic designer making all the visuals. I thought, okay, but when he leaves, what is going to happen? So, I began to tell the team, perhaps we shall have some templates. And one person on the team told me, you know, it’s not our culture here. It’s not going to work. That’s not our way of working.
But what happened? Your graphic designer left. So, I said, okay, perhaps I can help a bit. If there is a graphic design software, we can use it. You have a lot of models. Let’s try it, in fact. And little by little, this software was introduced. And then new people came to the team, and they understood the power of having templates to have handover to onboard new people.
So, I think for me it was – I was very happy. In fact, I’ll just say it was a discovery because when the person told me also, it doesn’t work like this here. Well, sometimes I tend to, as I told you, to be pushy, to be passionate. I said, okay. Here, I have to listen, to be quiet, to say, okay, I have to follow what the rule is and to see. And then after I see that you introduce change by collaborating, by showing the true benefits, rather than saying, okay, we need to change things. Let’s do like this, like this, like this. So for me, it was also, it was great experiences and memories.
Kevin and Kyle
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Building Stronger Networks
BILL YATES: I’m picking up on this theme of flexibility and learning and adaptability that you both have learned from your volunteering experiences, and you’ve grown from it and then become a better leader and a better team member even as a result of that.
So yeah, so kudos to you both for your growth in that. And I can completely relate. I’ve been very involved in volunteering. And I’ve had great experiences, and I’ve had some that have been frustrating. Let me ask this question. How has volunteering opened doors for you in terms of building relationships or building stronger networks?
YASMINA KHELIFI: Well, for me, I dare to network more because I was sometimes shy, for instance, in conferences. Now I can talk more easily to people I don’t know and to introduce myself. And through volunteering I have really an international network. When I need to have a piece of information about a new certification I’m interested in, I can reach out to my network and have more information. Perhaps some of your listeners may also think, how does it help to find a new job, a new role, to get more money? In my case, it was not my initial goal.
So, I love also languages, so for me it’s a way to network with different people, to practice my languages. But perhaps unfortunately I did not make a business case to have a return on investment, you know, on this. So, my, that’s my reality and my experiences.
MAYTE MATA: Yeah. I want to say that the last time that we were in Los Angeles together for the PMI Global Conference, I crossed my path with Yasmina, and I heard her speaking Japanese. And it was like, you also speak Japanese? She spoke six, seven languages, Yasmina, I don’t know how many. But yes, sometimes we speak in Spanish, sometimes I try to refresh my French, but the Japanese was something that really surprised me because she was speaking with a group of Japanese, and it’s like, you are not improve how you network in the last year that we crossed our path in conference. You also are practicing your skills in different languages. So I was, wow, I was like, that was Japanese, Yasmina?
So yeah, in my case, really volunteering has transformed Salt Lake City – as I mentioned, I’m based in Salt Lake City, Utah – into a small lake city. My initial goal, as I mentioned, was to feel that I belong. And after nine years here, it transformed constantly how I live because it doesn’t matter if I am in the grocery store or I am going to a soccer game or a Utah Jazz band, I always find a friend. And that’s very nice, that you cross your path with some familiar faces. I can go alone to events without my family because I will find someone that I know. So, it’s making Utah more fun for me, and it’s also helped me to open doors, not only for speaking engagements, also for job opportunities.
The last jobs that I found was through volunteer. Someone put my résumé in front of the hiring manager because, as I have an accent, and that accent is not traditional Utah accent, sometimes through the screening process I get nervous and I talk, as you can see, I talk a lot. And with HR screening, it’s a deal breaker for me. So, when I was looking for job transitions and things like that, it was very easy for me through someone that I network in the project management community, they said, “Hey, we are hiring.” And it was easy to apply for a job position because I didn’t go through the HR screening process because I always find it very, very challenging.
So that’s my two things that I wanted to highlight. One is that helped me to feel that I belong to this state because I can go everywhere and find someone. And the second one is the networking really helped me to find job opportunities, and I think that that’s super important.
Grow Your Skills through Volunteering
WENDY GROUNDS: Yeah, those are excellent examples. And it kind of leads into what we wanted to discuss in the next question, how this has helped you in your careers. You have written a book together entitled “The Volunteering Journey to Project Leadership,” and you discuss how volunteering helps project managers, professionals grow in their capabilities and in their careers. Can you share some compelling reasons why this would be beneficial to them and what types of activities you recommend they get involved in if they’re looking to volunteer?
MAYTE MATA: Yeah, so I will take this question because volunteering offers the project management professionals different ways to grow their skills, leadership skills, expanding networks. However, I think that the most important thing is to focus in your career. So, in “The Volunteer Journey of Project Leadership” we outline how volunteer can align in the different steps because, for example, early in a career professional, they are just starting. What they want to achieve through volunteering? They want to build the foundation, basically. They have skills like planning, scheduling, team collaboration. These are things that you don’t learn by passing the PMP test or by doing a master’s in project management.
So, we talk a little in the book how to lead a small project and volunteer to manage, for example, a community event. If you are passionate about dogs or managing a project or an event for a dog shelter, maybe that gives you joy and give you the opportunity to lead a small project. It also, you can look for projects to improve communications. For example, as Yasmina mentioned, join a group to do public speaking, such as Toastmaster, a local project management chapter, or things like that. So those two will be for early career professionals. But, for example, if you are in a mid-career, you are looking for different things. So, in this case, volunteering can help you more to this execution to the leadership, to grow leadership skills.
For example, maybe you don’t manage things. So, you can look for opportunities where you are a manager of a group of volunteers. You can practice, as we mentioned before, these sandbox skills, how to manage people, how to lead a team, how to practice with different kind of stakeholders.
But also, it’s not only managing teams. As a mid-career professional, you need to improve your strategic thinking. So, what you should do, you should look for an organization and take roles where you can contribute in the planning or the decision-making. In this mid-career, you are moving forward to growing as a senior leader, but you are practicing. You are practicing before that role arrives because you will have all the skill set, and you will be ready for the job opportunity. I’m a project management office director. So, people say, “Hey, you are done. You are already a director. What is the next step? What you can learn from volunteer?”
And now is when I choose the mentorship. You are ready to mentor others. You are ready to share your knowledge. And you are ready to guide upcoming project managers and give back all the things that you gained through volunteering. But also, you are in a position to drive organizational change because in these volunteer leadership positions for example, you are very passionate about arts, maybe you can take up board position in an arts event. And manage and drive organizational change, for example, when you design a strategy or improve processes in an organization that needs that change. So, for me, it’s very important to understand where are you in your career? What do you need to improve? What is your next step? And how to volunteer? You can be ready for this next step.
YASMINA KHELIFI: And what Mayte and I have experienced, and when we talked to a lot of volunteers – and to prepare the book, we talked with more than 100 volunteers, and we had surveys. And what is also important, you know, for instance, Mayte is a board member. I’m not a board member. I’m volunteering in different associations because I wanted in my case to discover, to practice language, to discover different environments. So, it is my choice. You have to have clear goals in your career. And then you volunteer, you can still volunteer, and you have to volunteer because you like it, because you can make new friends. If at the same time it can help your career, it’s okay, of course.
So, I think you have different ways of looking at your volunteer experiences. But really the most important thing for me is, as we said and we experience, is to go out of your current environment. I mean, it’s very important because this is a way of being more adaptable.
BILL YATES: That’s so good. When you’re volunteering, sometimes that gives you the opportunity to see the full landscape, including the strategic decisions that are made for that project. You know, many of the project managers that we train, they’ll tell me, “I don’t have a lot of budget control. So budgeting is interesting, but I just don’t get to do much with it. You know, I provide a few reports up to the finance group.”
Same thing with procurement. It might be, you know, “We have some other subcontractors that are working with us, but I don’t really choose them. They’re selected through the procurement group or through legal.” If it’s a volunteer project, then typically, you know, it’s a smaller thing, and you’re having to put on many hats, and you may get experiences that you’ve never had in your paying job. So, there’s such a breadth. Those are great advantages.
Career Benefits
MAYTE MATA: Yeah, and it’s true. It will keep you prepared for your next step in the career because maybe in your actual role, as you mentioned, you don’t manage vendors or you don’t manage budgets, but who knows where will you be next year. Maybe you find your dream job, and during the interview they ask you, “Tell me a time when you have an issue with a vendor.” So maybe you don’t have in your real job, but you have an answer because you did that in the volunteer experience. And you can say, “In my actual role, I don’t have this experience. However, during my volunteer time in ABC Organization, I had this challenge.” And you can drop names of vendors that are very known for events management or are very known for having merchandising material or whatever you are looking for that feeds that interview.
So, you are playing the game a little early than it should be in your professional development. And maybe you think, “Oh my gosh, I don’t like that. I don’t like vendors. I don’t like budgets. And I don’t like total decisions.” And then you decide, “I don’t want to be a director.”
BILL YATES: That’s right.
MAYTE MATA: “I don’t want to be a manager. I only want to be the best project manager ever. I want to be a subject matter expert.” So, then you learn in the volunteer environment, you are not taking a role, a high-paid job, and you say, “Oh my gosh, I really don’t…”
BILL YATES: Yes.
MAYTE MATA: “I’m having a nine-to-five, and this, I cannot handle it.” Because you experienced that before, you know what is coming.
BILL YATES: That’s good. You play in the sandbox, and you find out what you enjoy doing and what you don’t.
Practical Steps to Volunteering
WENDY GROUNDS: So now we have our project managers who want to start their volunteering journey. What are some practical steps that they can take? What advice would you give them so they can find the right opportunities that would suit them?
YASMINA KHELIFI: Yes, I think what is important is really to identify what you want to experience, to experiment, what you want to learn. And what also is important is to be realistic about your time commitment. Because sometimes when you are passionate you say, “Okay, I’m going to be a board member because I like this. I would like to experiment. I would like to try out new things, to be bold.” But being a board member, when talking with Mayte, another board member, it is a lot of work and a lot of commitment. And you are not paid, in fact. So…
WENDY GROUNDS: You volunteered.
YASMINA KHELIFI: …much harder also. And one other point I discovered also is the expectations that is linked to that because, if you are a board member, perhaps you didn’t really discuss the expectation, and someone told you, “You know we have a meeting once a week, one hour.” Okay.
But after that meeting, there is work to do. You need to synchronize with a lot of people. And as I told you, some people, they like emails. And over a note, they are going to tell you, “Yes, you have to call me at 9:00 p.m. in the evening.” For me, it’s very hard, 9:00 p.m. in the evening. It’s better 5:00 a.m. in the morning, but not many people like 5:00 a.m. So, you see there are a lot of small things that, if you don’t ask the questions about the time commitment, the expectation, also the level of quality.
We talked a lot about the sandbox. It doesn’t mean when you volunteer you have to deliver bad things. No, that is not what we are saying, in fact. People really rely on you. And if you cannot do it because of the skill, because usually, in the volunteer setting, you have someone who knows how to do it, who can help you. Sometimes you have also to learn by yourself. And sometimes it’s fun because you are learning new things by yourself.
But it means also you have to know what is expected. And volunteering, it’s not – from my point of view, it’s not a work. But when I talk sometimes to some organization or people, sometimes in some organization, in some teams with some people, volunteering is like a work. They expect the same level of quality, which is okay if I know the level of quality required.
Find Something That Brings You Joy
MAYTE MATA: So, I really wanted to say that I align with that first finding something that aligns your goals, understand your time commitment. But I also want to add something. If you are looking for your first volunteer opportunity or starting a volunteer journey, find something that brings you joy. It means volunteers should not be something to add in your to-do list. We have too many things going on. We are juggling every day with work, family. And Yasmina mentioned the time commitment. It’s a time commitment, but at least find something that brings you joy, that you are going to enjoy.
So, in the book, what we introduce is something that we call the “volunteer canvas,” that it’s a tool that will help you to organize your ideas. Does this organization fit your values? Are the mission of these organizations something that is going to give you joy? For example, if you are allergic to dogs, why you are going to volunteer to a dog shelter? It will not bring you joy. Maybe it will bring you more EpiPens, carrying more EpiPens with you. So, it’s a one-page canvas tool that people can help to organize their ideas and get them to define it. What are your aspirations? What is a good opportunity to meet, and how I can plan that to make it impactful and fulfilling?
BILL YATES: Mm-hmm. You know, so many of the points that you both have brought up just resonate with me. And to your point, do that which brings you joy, and think about the goals and make sure that your personal goals align with the organization, and it is something you’re passionate about. Just recently I spoke at a PMI, a local chapter event, and I think of Nuriyah and Josephine. They were the leaders who were putting so much time and prep into this. And they did everything from, you know, yeah, the public speaking, the announcing, introducing me as a speaker, follow-up and all that.
But they’re picking up pizza on the way to the event. They’re making sure that the seats are set up properly. You know, there’s a lot of roll the sleeves up and do the hard work. There’s not a lot of glamour behind it. Go into those volunteer positions knowing what to expect. You know, talk to those who’ve been in those roles ahead of you so that you make sure that you’re choosing the right thing, where you can do something that brings you joy and that you feel true fulfillment in.
Memorable Volunteering Experiences
WENDY GROUNDS: Do either of you have a memorable volunteering experience? Just a story about something that has brought you joy?
MAYTE MATA: I can write a book about that. But I have to mention that the book is not a memoir because we have a lot of volunteer experience, as Yasmina mentioned. But something very, very memorable will be the first time that I volunteer. And that ties when you were mentioned to being a speaker for a chapter. So, the first time that I volunteered to give a public speaking presentation for the PMI North Utah chapter, so I just moved from Spain to here. I did public speaking engagements in Spanish. I didn’t know the culture. And I didn’t know how people will react to my accent. So, I volunteered.
I thought it was a small gathering. It was almost 250 people. And I was after a super keynote, famous speaker, and that was challenging because the experience pushed me really out of my comfort zone. When I saw this professional, very great keynote speaker, and after they introduced me, I was like, “Oh, my God, we will do that.” It was very challenging, but it really taught me something about preparation, confidence, and how to connect to the audience. It was a great learning moment for me. That was seven years ago. And now it doesn’t matter for me if I have 10 people in the room, 250, 500, I’m okay. But that’s one of the most memorable volunteer experience that had a real, real impact on me.
YASMINA KHELIFI: Yes, I think it’s very interesting what Mayte is saying because I think volunteering also gives you passion sometimes to really go outside of your comfort zone. You know, sometimes when we prepared, Mayte and I talked also as a PI in Los Angeles, as a summit for the first time. And you know, when I prepared, et cetera, sometimes I thought, “What I’m doing here?” You know, really because it’s unpaid, and it’s a lot of work, and a lot of people, family, told me, “But why did you apply exactly to do this?”
And at the end, you know, it pushed you to make things you would never thought you could do, you know, like writing a book, having a webinar. We did also a webinar in Spanish for the community with Mayte. Mayte is native Spanish, but I’m not. In fact, you do a lot of things that sounds completely crazy. When you think rationally, when you go back to work and people tell you, “Oh, you did these kind of things.” I said, “Yes, yes, I tried.” They are very surprised. And for me, memorable experiences is really unexpected collaborations. You know, you meet someone in a webinar, and you talked a little bit, and after you say, “Oh, let’s do a webinar together,” or “Let’s write an article.” And I think all these great collaborations, completely unexpectedly and remotely, are really great memories for me.
MAYTE MATA: Yeah, like Yasmina, when we met, I remember that I told Yasmina, “We will never meet in person. It’s impossible. I mean, you are in France. I am in Utah.” We wrote an article, did a webinar, and three years later we crossed our path in a global conference. So, she – the first thing that she told me instead of “Hello” was like, “See, we are meeting in person.” So that’s unexpected. Both volunteering gives so much joy and adrenaline high to both of us that it’s amazing.
The Book
WENDY GROUNDS: Won’t you just tell us briefly about your book and how that’s going to help project managers?
MAYTE MATA: The book will help because it’s a compilation of experience of different people. And it’s not only that they will have real examples to start volunteering, or if you are middle career, how to grow. It’s also that they will have these real examples, and they will have tools that we create based on the experience of a lot of people. I think that, well, we mentioned more than 100 people, but we had surveys we had interview, we went to conference and chat with other volunteers. And then that helped us to build something that is kind of a how-to, but with real examples.
Based on all these people, we have real tools to support them. We have real business cases that will help the people to find their next step in the volunteer journey. It doesn’t matter if they are starting or if they are seasoned volunteers, but there is something missing. So, they can help project managers to grow in their career path.
YASMINA KHELIFI: Yes, and I want to say we really make it very practical to try to give as much value as possible to the readers. And I can tell you itself, it’s also a project. And it’s not in isolation we did it. It’s not Mayte and I. We had a full community of support. We shared the book. And we listened to feedback. Sometimes the feedback, sometimes people say, you know, “No value in what you are writing here. What do you want really to say?” It’s not easy to receive, but it was true. So, we had to work harder to improve the book.
So, I think, yes, writing a book is really a hard project, but it’s not easy at all.
MAYTE MATA: Yeah. And it’s not only that we wrote the book, it’s that we are published. That’s something that I am very, very proud. And Yasmina was very perseverant when we started this journey. And I’m very happy that one of the publishers trusts us and thought that that was something that add value to the community. I’m very proud of our work, and that a publisher trusts the work behind that.
Connect with Yasmina and Mayte
WENDY GROUNDS: If our audience wants to get in touch with either of you, where should they go?
MAYTE MATA: I think that LinkedIn is the best way. We are very active. Both of us are very active. We share a lot of tips about project management. We highlight other people. So, I think that is the best way, and we usually try to answer to the people that ask questions to follow up after an interview, or follow-up questions about the volunteer journey and things like that.
BILL YATES: Thank you both for spending this time with us and helping us understand some of the challenges that will come with volunteering, many of the benefits that come with volunteering, even down to the practical that you’ve shared and have in the book as to, okay, these are the benefits. Now I can explain these to my manager when I need to ask them to leave just a little bit early on Thursday afternoon so I can go to this event that is a volunteer event. Here are the reasons that this is how I’m going to grow. This ties right back to my performance review. This is the area I want to grow in. This is a way to do it. You know, boom, boom, boom.
And just the practical thoughts, too, of, you know, treat this like a sandbox, but make sure it’s something that brings you joy and something that you can bring value to. Great stories that you’ve shared. Very inspiring. Thank you so much for your time today.
MAYTE MATA: Thank you for having us. It was very fun.
YASMINA KHELIFI: Thank you very much, Bill and Wendy. It was amazing.
Closing
WENDY GROUNDS: That’s it for us here on Manage This. Thank you for joining us. You can visit us at Velociteach.com, where you can subscribe to this podcast and see a complete transcript of the show.
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